陈凯论坛 Kai Chen Forum 不自由,毋宁死! Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death! 陈凯博客 Kai Chen Blog: www.blogspot.com 陈凯电邮 Kai Chen Email: elecshadow@aol.com 陈凯电话 Kai Chen Telephone: 661-367-7556
#1

请不要将法轮功与共产邪恶并同 Do Not Confuse Differences with Evil

in 陈凯论坛 Kai Chen Forum 不自由,毋宁死! Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death! Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:23 am
by fountainheadkc • 1.369 Posts



请不要将法轮功与共产邪恶并同
Do Not Confuse Differences with Evil


每日一语:

混淆不同与邪恶只能说明混淆者道德上的混乱。 一个在中国被虐杀的精神信仰团体竟然被说成是与中共杀人犯们一样邪恶。 一个邪恶的幽灵正在利用人们的偏见,无知与道德的混乱延续着黑暗与罪恶。 --- 陈凯

Confusing what is different with what is evil only shows moral confusion of those who confuse. An innocent spiritual group currently being persecuted and killed off by the communist regime in China somehow is said to be just as evil as those who kill. Something is wrong - an evil specter is roaming, stalking, using people's ignorance and bias, using people's moral confusion to perpetuate darkness and perversion. --- Kai Chen


我要一再经常地强调美国并不是被教会者们建立的。 美国是被具有基督精神的人们建立的。 美国并不是建立在宗教上的。 美国是建立在基督的精神上的。 就是因为这个原因有着其他信仰的人们才在美国找到了庇护,繁荣与崇拜的自由。 --- Patrick Henry (美国国父之一)

It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here. --- Patrick Henry


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Dear Visitors:

I think we have just started a very meaningful and very important conversation here at Youpai.org.

I recently posted some comments under "怀念六四屠杀死难者:我打赌他们只是睡着了". Somehow we got into some debate and discussion on Falungong. I now paste all the comments regarding Falungong here under the topic. I hope all of you would come here and express yourself on this subject.

My position is clear with my comments under the topic. So brace yourself for some heated and candid discussion.

Best. Kai Chen 陈凯

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[15] 发布者:一位基督徒 2008-06-28 23:43:18

陈凯兄弟:

陈凯兄弟关注中国的人权,并勇敢地站出来,我从内心很赞尚和感激(勇敢是中国人最确乏的).然而我有两点建议如下,如果冒犯,请您海涵:
1. 请不要和FLG 的人过于密切,除非您想通过接触转化他们.做为CHRIST FOLLOWER, 我们应该远离拜偶像的神不喜悦的人.
2.请不要像其他右派人士一样,把美国民主党等同于共产党.这也是我认为右派网过于偏激的原因(我仍然很喜换欢这个网站的很多文章和观点.
你是这个网上最礼貌的绅士,知道你是主内兄弟,非常高兴,愿神祝福你!

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[16] 发布者:语言学家 2008-06-29 01:07:38

我极少用汉语写专业文章,但我还是可以体会到汉语在科技写作上的欠缺。

计算机硬件的驱动程序实际和人类的语言没什么关系,所有都译成了机器码。只要你有一个支持汉语的编译器即可,只是无人做这个无聊的东西。

据说梵文最适合现代计算机,可惜一点不懂。

"It is true that Chinese language will easily make personal attack,and be emotional.
I have had the experience on one english forum,when those chinese posters unhappy,he just swithing back into Chinese and starting uncivilized behaviore."

这不过是因为英语不是其母语,骂起人来不顺畅。和语言本身无关。汉语是非粘连语,没有动词的变化,这使得某些表达困难。

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[17] 发布者:Kai Chen 2008-06-29 01:47:29

[size=24]Tolerance of differences is a virtue[/size]

Dear Christian Brother:

Tolerance of differences is a virtue, while tolerance of evil is beyond vice. Tolerance of evil puts one into the category of the evil's accomplices.

Though I am not a Falungong practitioner and I have no intention to be one, I do admire the Falungong practitioners for their courage, dedication and uncompromising position against evil. This is more than what I can say about many other so-called democratic groups.

I will do everything in my power to fight for individuals' right to worship and believe. Rights to believe and worship is essential for a free society. Truth does not need to be protected or shielded against attacks. Truth only needs to be discovered and expressed. If you believe Christianity/what it preaches and practices represents the truth, then there is no need to fear any challenge to that truth. Truth will always shine through all the darkness.

Christianity is never meant to be cliquish, secretive or exclusive. That is why all different religions and religious sects are tolerated in a Christian society. America is the prime example. This is much more than what I can say about societies dominated by any other religion.

If you start worrying about your own believes (in this case Christianity) being decimated and shaken by some challenges or attacks, examine yourself, examine your own belief and faith. You may find that maybe it is your own weaknesses and infirmity, not your religion(Christianity)that need to be strengthened.

The biggest enemy of mankind now is the Chinese communist regime. And in our struggle against evil, Falungong practitioners have exhibited extraordinary courage, faith in goodness, fortitude and effort. They deserve our support and admiration. To tell you the truth, I wish our Christian brothers and sisters had the same courage, strength and faith in goodness as the Falungong practitioners. Now only a very few media outlets such as NTDTV, Sound of Hope and Epoch Times founded by the FLG practitioners remain untainted and un-corrupted by the CCP among most of all the Chinese language media outlets both inside and outside of China.

To voice my views and anti-communist messages, I feel safe with Falungong practitioners. Most other media outlets are afraid of me, are afraid of offending the communist regime in China. I only want to thank the Falungong practitioners for their support and assistance in my Olympic Freedom T-shirt Global Movement. I am proud to call them brothers and sisters. We are in the same trenches fighting the same enemy.

If you have true faith in goodness and justice, in God, why worry about others, as long as they do not interfere with your practicing your own faith and religion. We should focus our task onto vanquishing the biggest evil mankind has ever faced -- the communist regime in China.

Best to you all, my Christian brothers and sisters, my fellow human beings of other faiths and religious persuasions. My prayers are for you and with you.

Kai Chen

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[18] 发布者:Hugo 2008-06-29 06:02:03

[size=18]華文的本質是邪靈與病毒[/size]

“獅子”對“老鷹”說,「我從來沒有發現華文世界所發展出來的知識,可以成為非華文世界的教科書裡的知識;華文世界發展不出獨立的科學理論、獨立的醫學理論、獨立的生物學理論、獨立的邏輯學理論、獨立的憲政學理論、獨立的Individualism與Liberalism理論等;華文世界永遠產生不出獨立創造性的文明,華文世界永遠只能從事模仿與拷貝性的文化,華文世界永遠只能不斷地高喊向先進文明學習,不是嗎?」

“老鷹”憤怒地說,「華文的本質是Anti-Absolute moral、Anti-Absolute truth、Anti- Absolute beauty、Anti-Absolute good、Anti-Individualism 、Anti-Liberalism、Anti- Freeman、Anti- Human rights、Anti-Democracy、Anti- Freedom、Anti- Equality、Anti- Rule of law、Anti-Constitutional democracy、Anti- Happiness等價值理念的邪靈!」

「華文的本質是排斥『The sovereign power resides in the people』、『Human rights take precedence over sovereignty』、『People have political equal rights and the right to autonomy』、『People have the right to self-determination and to establish a nation and a Constitution』、『Separation of the three powers (administrative, legislative and judicial) 』、『People have the right to live, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness』、『Laissez-faire capitalism、Laissez-faire economy、Laissez-faire expertism、Positive non-interventionism、Minarchism』等價值理念的絕緣體!」

「華文的本質是包含著『漢種族極權主義』、『漢種族專制主義』、『漢種族封建文化』、『漢種族中央集權主義』、『漢種族特權主義』、『等級制』、『差序位格』、『相對道德』、『不尊重人的尊嚴與權利』、『功利主義』、『追求權力名位主義』、『追求榮華富貴主義』、『追求升官發財主義』、『虛無主義』、『漢種族沙文主義』、『漢種族統治中心主義』、『漢種族世界中心主義』、『漢種族集體主義』、『漢種族家族中心主義』、『漢種族崇古主義』、『漢種族大一統主義』、『漢種族權謀詭詐主義』、『漢種族坑矇拐騙主義』、『漢種族假大空主義』、『漢種族集體主義』等意識的病毒體!」

「當你不斷地容忍與使用華文的『人』(兩條腿的東西)、『民』(統治者眼中的奴隸)、『官』(承認統治者專制合法性的概念)、『家』(養豬的棚子) 、『孝』(無違統治者的爻令) 、『教』(棍棒教學法) 、『總統』(總管的統治者) 、『國』(認同武力為合法佔領土地的概念,Anti- Human rights and Anti- Human will) 、『老百姓』(認同專制統治者的概念)等字時,你還有什麼道德與人性可言?你還有什麼尊重人的尊嚴與權利可言?」

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[19] 发布者:反共故我在 2008-06-29 08:03:11

回15楼

那个所谓的基督徒:当今世界最大的撒旦就是中共。你和撒旦的口径极其一致嘛?被共匪妖魔化的法轮功,成了你个人的洪水猛兽了?

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[20] 发布者:常客 2008-06-29 08:05:18

非常认同陈凯和HUgo对汉语的观点

和左棍不同的是,我个人不在乎别人的认同和欣赏。在极其丑陋的中华文化的恶土壤里产生的就是象共匪那样的暴政和认同屈服暴政的奴才。和西方不同的是,华人一旦有了独立的思维,就会立刻被认为是异端怪兽,就会被共匪媒体妖魔化。而奴才总是跟着主子后面鼓噪跟着主子指责别人的离经叛道。

赞一下Hugo说的:

「華文的本質是包含著『漢種族極權主義』、『漢種族專制主義』、『漢種族封建文化』、『漢種族中央集權主義』、『漢種族特權主義』、『等級制』、『差序位格』、『相對道德』、『不尊重人的尊嚴與權利』、『功利主義』、『追求權力名位主義』、『追求榮華富貴主義』、『追求升官發財主義』、『虛無主義』、『漢種族沙文主義』、『漢種族統治中心主義』、『漢種族世界中心主義』、『漢種族集體主義』、『漢種族家族中心主義』、『漢種族崇古主義』、『漢種族大一統主義』、『漢種族權謀詭詐主義』、『漢種族坑矇拐騙主義』、『漢種族假大空主義』、『漢種族集體主義』等意識的病毒體!」

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[21] 发布者:陆士绅 2008-06-29 12:35:05

[size=24]FLG observed[/size]

About FLG, my observation is that they are playing
the same game as CCP did, just using a different terms and words system. Their inside logical is the same,and the most unreasonable part is that they claim there is an CCP,and which is the evil sadan itself.

No, i do not agree with this.

Yes we can call them brothers and sisters,but not Bro.and Sisters in Christ.

For me,there is only two kinds of person,belivers and non-believers,nothing else.

Yes, FLG group today is the only uncompromising group against CCP,but i donot think there is even an CCP in China. You can using english laguage to describe CCP if you want to make this arguement clear.

I believe the so-called CCP is just an Mafia cult,one or a few dicatators dominated cult.

Against CCP is not same as against Evil in this case.

Also, i observed that FLG has doing the same kinds of propaganda as CCP,and this time combined with FLG spritual story,instead of Maxism.

As christian, FLG practioners deserves the same love as those CCP members individually.

Both of their theory and religions has no too much different ,especially when it comes to the defination of Human being,and how to treat the others ,especially when the others come to be their enmey CCP.

Bro. Kai Chen,you are wrong in this issue.

I do agree with you that almost all of the chinese media on this earth has been corrupted with so-called CCP, and FLG's not.

But if you can using my defination of YELLOW, you will find another picture about the truth in behind.

I would like to have more FLG friends, but it seems they do not like me either, one just called me the fake christian.hehe

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[22] 发布者:陆士绅 2008-06-29 13:13:01

[size=18]There is nothing tangible can work alone[/size]

Dear 语言学家,

There is nothing tangible can work alone when it come to our mind ,behavior ,especially when it comes to happness and care as humanbeing.

Chinese language seems proved to be the most easily carrier of evil.
Remember those slogans during last 80 years of CCP history in China.

Yes, i do agree that it has nothing to do with moral reality.

Language is just a tool for us to commnuincate ,it works at some level,layers of information transmission with a different functions.

There is drivers, operation system, and application system, input systems and commnuication potocol,etc..all of them plays at different information layers inside and between individual PCs.
The are all the software part of this Information world,the software side of PCs and internet.

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[23] 发布者:Kai Chen 2008-06-29 13:22:57

[size=24]Do not confuse FLG with evil regime[/size]

Dear Mr. Lu:

Thanks for the message and I think we are engaging in a very important and meaningful discussion here.

To equate FLG, a spiritual or Quasi-religious group with evil communist regime in China is a big mistake, a judgment error if you will that will damage the cause of freedom we are fighting for.

FLG, as a distinct group, has no political agenda. Nor does it demand power-sharing in any public settings. FLG does not violate the principle of freedom. The participants and believers volunteer to join and work for the spiritual cause. FLG does not violate my freedom and rights or any other who does not want to join or believe.

This is the opposite of what the communist regime in China represents, practices and preaches. Those who join the CCP and want to benefit at the cost of others' misery and deaths are part of the evil. I will not shed a tear when they are punished by God with their own choices to join evil and harm others. I will only feel pity toward them. With FLG practitioners, I am proud to call them my comrades in our battles against evil. I will tolerate and respect their choices in their own version of belief, regardless whether I agree with them or not. For example, I do not agree with FLG's tendency to look for China's future in China's past. I have debated and disputed with FLG members on this issue. But that is a matter of differences. People can have different opinions, as long as they don't violate my freedom and dignity.

Simply because some FLG members do not like you, you cannot conclude they are evil. Tolerance of differences indeed means tolerance of something you may not understand or like. The principle is whether they violate your freedom/rights, or you violate their freedom/rights. You have yet to show me where this principle is violated in your contact with them. Is your freedom being infringed in any way by FLG?

I welcome your comment. Best. Kai Chen

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[24] 发布者:一个基督徒 2008-06-29 21:48:46

[size=18]To Chen, Kai[/size]

Dear Brother,

I thank you for your response and time to share me with your opinions and views. May God Bless you !

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[25] 发布者:一个基督徒 2008-06-29 22:07:04

re :反共故我在

As a christian, I could ask my brother a question.I think that I did nothing wrong. Please allow me to express my opinions and views . I forgave you if you did not notice that it was a question to Mr.Chen,Kai .FLG is a controversial topic since the day when it was born. It is normal that people hold different views and thoughts. I see no reason why you became so upset each time when you heard a different voice. I do not hate FLG people. As a christian , I respect other people' right and love them.However, I believe that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and all other believes are wrong. That is why I asked a famous chritsian brother.I am very happy to know his point and I thank him for sharing it with me .

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[26] 发布者:陆士绅 2008-06-30 01:13:32

[size=18]FLG is what? and Whom is its practitioners?[/size]

Yes,it is important when it concern with what’s our believing.

Look, Jesus teach us that God looks our heart and soul,not just what we appeared to be or behavior. I do not want to judge any person,either he is FLG or communist,I am here just to make judgment between the behavior of FLG and “evil communist regime in China”,which I labeling it as evil cult in China. It is totally different in their appearance,but very same on both behavior and especially the definition of human, and treatment of human: both said that if you do not agree or accept my believing, you will go hell. The difference is that CCP realized its hell with their hands,but FLG with other means. We can easily make find the similarity if we read their logical behind.

Yes, I do agree that they are not prepared or be born to be a political group. It is the CCP cult make it political group. It is Jiang’ regime took FLG as a target to create fear and terror in China, which is always a must in any dictatorship system. I am sorry for what happen with FLG practitioners in China, and do support their freedom on religion.

I did not see any of their political agenda till now, but it is practice political activities with the same Yellow mentality as I described as CCP cult.

I do agree with your comment on those who join the CCP and want to benefit at the cost of others’ misery and death are part of ,or I would like called it shared with the evil. But the difference is that, ”they are evil but they do not know”. As believers, we should follow Jesus to pray for their mercy and forgiven by Mighty God.

Some of the FLG friend do not like my discuss and anger with their quotation from Bible, especially the quotation from Fake ,or unofficial Bible verse. Also I made one article to comment on why should not a Christian not to participation on its movement of Tui Dan.

It is nothing to do with personal like me or not, I am always open to discuss with them on any issue. I do not find anything they did till now as evil action, even the one which can be called crime in social moral judgment. And I did not say that those individual FLG friend is evil , but I do want to say that their idea about human is not bible preached one, same as CCP’S Maxism garbage.

Always separate individuals with their religion or believing, separate the material or hardware part of life with software side.

Otherwise, there is no way for us, everyone sinned.
Remember that God loving everyone, and is calling us back to HIM.

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[27] 发布者:语言学家 2008-06-30 02:42:06

这讨论怎么从语言变成了法轮功?
法轮功和共产党的最大共同点是:都建立在谎言之上。
遗憾的是这里的一些基督徒只敢说共产党在说谎。在美国骂共产党并不需要勇气,如同在北京骂美国不需要勇气一样。在这个网站上,对某些人而言,在法轮功面前,坚持自己的基督教信仰(如果他们真有的话),似乎很困难。

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#2

RE: 请不要将法轮功与共产邪恶并同 Do Not Confuse Differences with Evil

in 陈凯论坛 Kai Chen Forum 不自由,毋宁死! Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death! Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:30 am
by fountainheadkc • 1.369 Posts

Dear Mr. Lu:

Thanks for the message to raise the issues.

My position: Times change and circumstances change. Morality does not change. Truth, justice, liberty and human dignity will never change. These values are eternal and universal. Since the very beginning of human history, mankind pursued, has pursued, and is still pursuing these values. These values are the essential components of our moral compass so we know by it when/where something is not right.

Simply because Washington and Jefferson once owned slaves, because they were born into a system of slavery, it does not diminish their greatness in their effort to establish a just system with the eternal human values that eventually abolished slavery. To say that because I was born in China and was once a PLA soldier and therefore my views in criticizing the evil regime in China should be discredited and diminished is ludicrous and insane. The communist regime used my love for basketball as hostage against my liberty, individuality and dignity. And today they are still doing the same to other athletes and all the people. As long as the evil regime exists, human liberty and dignity will never be respected. That is given. Because I lived through such an evil system and suffered under such an evil system, I may have more to say about it than those who have not suffered under it.

By Ordinary People's (a visitor) logic, only those in China now can criticize China. Then he also contradicts himself right after by saying that if you lived in China (all people who lived in China worked for the Chinese government in one way or another), you were somehow guilty of helping the evil regime. What an insane proposition! When a slave decides to be free, he must shut up, not to criticize the master who tortured and abused him. Sick logic, isn't it? By Ordinary People's sick anti-logic, you can only criticize the communist regime if you join the communist party. And you can only criticize China if you are in Chinese jail waiting to be killed like a martyr. Is he out of his mind? (By the way, how do you know he is a "she"?)

Some issues by insane people do not deserve to be addressed and I am not wasting my time on them.

If you understand the principle of freedom by which America stands, then you know equating Chiang and Mao, equating FLG with the communist regime, equating anyone who makes errors or has flaws with the anti-humanity crimes by the cancerous communist regime on the mainland of China only shows our own moral confusion and corruption.

Did Chiang do what Mao did to the Chinese and the world? Did FLG in any way obstruct any body's freedom? If you are honest, you have to answer "No". Then why equate them in moral terms?!

Generalization is necessary only to understand concepts, but not to judge people. Each individual person should be judged by his or her own words and conducts individually. But this does not mean there is no standard or principles. Do not confuse both.

Thanks for the message. I hope more people will think about these important issues. It helps to clarify some moral concepts.

Best. Kai Chen

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陈凯博客 Kai Chen Blog: www.kaichenblog.blogspot.com 陈凯电邮 Kai Chen Email: elecshadow@aol.com 陈凯电话 Kai Chen Telephone: 661-367-7556
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