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RE: 共后时代的标像符号及语言/一些构想 • Author: fountainheadkc, Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:56 pm

Dear ksk:

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your attempt to communicate with me in English. Yet I want to request a small favor: Please separate paragraphs with a double space so I can understand your train of thoughts a little better. At least now you understand my rules: If you try to denigrate on my character and integrity on this forum, or to question my morality and motives, I will indeed cut you off. I am glad now we are on the same page with this regard. Seeking truth, not to feel above or below someone, is the purpose of our communication. If I sense you are here to feel your superiority or inferiority, I will stop communicating with you. Communication/Trade is only meaningful between free beings/countries. Existence indeed exists. Any nihilistic tendencies between our communication will surely doom our conversation.

I also would like you to write English in a concise way, using one or two sentences to clearly express your point. "What is your point? Or what do you want to say?" should always be behind every word we write here. As long as we adhere to these principles and try to make ourselves as clear and concise as we can, we can have a fruitfull discussion here.

Now I will try to decipher what you are saying in English and try to respond as best as I can: By the way, please do not use the word "Chiks" (a derogatory term to call the Chinese) in our discussion. This is not a name-calling session, even though I despise many Chinese "antry youths/elders". Kai Chen


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"If you want to avoid misunderstanding between us, you should use English to communicate with me."
correct." "I sense you are aiming at a "perfect arrangement" based on human good will. You should wake up from such an illusion. Human societies will never be perfect." --- Quote Kai Chen


From ksk:

1.plz notice the original vocabulaire:只有同时满足四者才能使新的政治的【【【主要部分】】】不会重新变为旧支那的说一套做一套
I had have reckoned the accuracy of the usage of words.Le Chinois is a very ambiguously language.However,while i am using it,i do let it become much more accurate that it was.
2.i don't use the words such as perfect.No doubt i know it's original meaning not equally to 完美 in Le Chinois.it's original meaning is "thoroughly + to do".
However,before SUBJECT(we,i,you,etc) to talk about "thoroughly + to do",the more significant is to ponder to which perspectives & what kind of Wertvorstellungen(from de. sense of view)of "perfect" are SUBJECT talking about.

Kai Chen's response: I fail to understand what you want to say here. Please make your point clearer: What is your point?

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"The premise in your erroneous notion is there is no evil and good, no justice and injustice, no moral absolutes. " --- Quote Kai Chen

From ksk:

I do think this world is a relativity world.

It is a relativity world,however personally i think in the relativity world,there do have some absolutes in the relativity.Absolutes in relativity means,such as,the benefits 【here benefit is a natural word,neither good nor evil/bad.don't use the 利益 in Le Chinois to relate with the word "benefit".利益 is derogatory word in Chink.benefit is a natural word.】 of capitalism can bring to ppl are much more bigger than communist can brings.Relatively,in another perspective,the damages(or "ruin",which will more accurate) that communism can brings to ppl,are much bigger than capitalism can brings.
Also,Freedom is much more fit ppl's bigger benefits,than Slavery.
I do think we should care about the conception "Justice" or "fair".Yet the fair or justice in my own english language world,they are not equal with the chink 正义.it only equals it's original meaning,which from their very basic morphemes.As you can see,i always deconstruct(Деконструировать in russian) the incorrect conception in chink language from the least basic morphemes;then,i will reconstruct(реконструировать in russian) them from the original meaning from the least basic morphemes,in English.Therefore,i can desinicization much more efficiently.
About "evil and good".
Generally,i myself do not use Binary Opposition System to ponder & analyze things.
I would like to use much more detailed,exhaustive,&specifically words to ponder & analyze.
For example,if you want me to analyze the affects of communism,maybe i will through the 【1】“Obliteration of the Self” side【2】Collective Destruction,including the topest one.it's not fit all persons' benefits【3】In all aspects(including economic,political,and all social memeber's mentality) the Fundamental Communism can not be sustained in even a little long period,so in all major communism entities which do last long tine eventually have to enter the Revisionism.
So,you can see.i will not use words like good nor evil/bad to ponder & analyze.
Even if i have to use Binary Opposition System,i prefer like to use good/bad,instead of good/evil.
Why?
Have you ever study some philosophy?Then,go to search the "Master–slave morality" in wikipedia english version.Of course,now i am NOT assault your morality.And as i am going to saying,i never have interests to assault other's morality,even in period of while disputing things.

Kai Chen's Response: So what I sense about your premise is correct: You are a moral-relativist. By the way, you should substitute the word "benefit" with the word "interest/s". That way I can make some sense from what you said.

Your relativist stand makes our communication very difficult to continue. Marxist "dialectics" and Chinese "ying-yang mentality" is the root of evil in today's China. I compare such "Monkey King Tricks" (standing everywhere but standing nowhere, or talking from both sides of one's mouth) to "Spiritual/Intellectual/Mental AIDS virus". Anyone who contracts such virus will literally transform into "Spiritual Zombies" (the living dead who wants to only prey upon the living). The Chinese always resort to the "Monkey King Tricks" - a nihilistic zimbie-like state, to beat their opponents/enemies to win. They don't know in the end they themselves become the very victims of their own nihilistic mindset. China's never-ending, never-progressing dynastic cycles are precisely the result of such "Monkey King AIDS virus". They end up going nowhere but mired in a man-eating-man-eating-man-eating-man.... I don't want to engage with you in such a cycle. So please re-check your premises to see where exactly you stand, so I can engage you, not 72 monkeys around me.

Your problem starts with your moral-relativistic stand. You truly don't know where you stand and what you believe. You want to win, but not want to live and bear all the responsibilities and consequences of your choices/decisions. You think winning is everything - the one who wins is the king while the one who loses is the bandit. This is precisely the "Chinese mentality" I want all free beings to be aware and to be away from.

This is why you think Mao's image with communist symbols can stand side by side with "Communist Victims' Memorial" (80 million people dead for nothing). This is why you think evil can coexist with good, truth can coexist with falsehood, right can coexist with wrong, justice can coexist with injustice. This is precisely why the world is in trouble now. And the Chinese regime knows exactly how to use people's moral relativism to spread "Confucian Socialism" around the world. So please make me believe you are not one of zombies aiming to devour all the living.


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"China's people have never had any immersion into Christianity" --- Quote Kai Chen

Even if chink immersed into Christianity,the chink Christianity also will mixed with chink culture,and use chink language to express it.
For example,Korea always be considered as Chink the Minor(in ancient chinese & korean Weltanschauung【sense of world】,they both do identify korea as it)
Traditionally,Korea have a lot of chink shit either.Collectivism,Confucianism,Hierarchy,Despotism,Authoritarianism【CCHDA】;and current Korea have highest Christian demographics in population for percentage in east asia.However Korean Christianity mixed a lot of chink shits or east asian shits【CCHDA,as i motioned】.

Kai Chen Response: (Please don't use the term Chinks) I do agree with you that using Chinese language to understand Christianity is like using a basket to retain water, or using a pair of "HaHa Glasses" to view the world. Everything is distorted when using Chinese language to understand, to analyze, to formulate.....

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“If you want my continued input and communication with you, please do not guess my motive or question my morals.” --- Quote Kai Chen

I never guess your moral nor motive.
About the "moral" problem,actually i've been NOT stand in any certain standard of moral to judge ppl for a very long period.A lot of years,i estimate.
Everyone always do judges.Me either.However my judge itself do not relates with any kinds of standard of moral.
About the "motive" problem.I don't know what you were talking about?
About the "Dual-Standard" problem.First,i think it is a cognitive problem,instead of(= not) a moral problem.
Everyone all have dual-standard or Tri-stanard,just like everyone all have racism,and Egocentrism in cognition realm(here is in cognitive,noticed.do not equal it with selfness), me too.However,the difference is it's not everybody will intentionally to seek and recognize(admit) those.

Kai Chen Response: (Quote ksk: “There is no American freedom or German freedom. There is only "Human Freedom".”
请不要用宏大概念代替实际讨论,亦不要用抢占道德制高点(不过你是有意或无意)来代替理性讨论。支那出生的人和美国左派特别喜欢这种方法。上次在美国candidates电视讨论非法墨移大举涌入的问题时,几个candidates本来各述观点,相对而言较理性而有逻辑,然而轮到某democrat发言时,其一抢过话筒即大声吼一句:“There is no Illegal Human!”底下愚人们立刻呼声一片,因为这正中其ethic orgasm的G点。另几个原先发过言的candidates看到这种热烈情况,亦只好苦笑。等于本来一个理性而实际的讨论被这democrat给搅黄了,现在变成抢占道德制高点(moral high ground)和扯宏大概念的谈的竞争了。

You yourself raised the issue of "German style freedom" or "American style freeom". I was merely addressing your expression and deem your expressions as inappropiate. Then you accuse me to use morality to demean your point. That is way out of line. Morality/immorality is in everyone's points and expressions. Values/anti-values is in everyone's points and expressions. To deny they exist is to evade moral responsibilities. You should re-examine your life and your views on the world. Not having any moral stand/conviction will doom this discussion.


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"Communism in the 1940s and 1950s' America was real." --- Quote Kai Chen

True.And current day's communism threaten also is real.I never said it's a illusion.And current day's threatens need plus Muslim,and maybe needs to plus a uprising Neon Authoritarianism Russia(Russia is turning to a neon Authoritarianism country rapidly).And plus a rapidly increasing government size in USA.
But as i had have said,before these ppl do exactly broken the law,all these ppl are "not guilt".You said you think i don't care justice.Well,then,this is one of my Wertvorstellung of justice.
Noticed,While the time that threaten expands,Also is the time that Government Power expands.

Kai Chen's Response: To say US Congress has no right to inquire upon individuals in question of communist activities is a distortion of US laws. No one was put in jail during the period in question, unless he/she was clearly a Russian Spy. Some were executed, rightfully. Others experienced social difficulties and loss of opportunities. But the scale is very limited and now with the leftist propaganda in schools/media exaggerated into some kind of "Witch Hunt" as it is termed. It is much like the Christian "Dark Ages", it only exists in people' imagination spread by the leftists. The total numbers of dead during the 300 years of "dark ages" is only a dozen per year. Though I never mean to day it is good, it is dwarfed by the 20th century atrocities by the atheist Nazi and Communist countries. The "Witch Hunt" is also in people's imagination. In my view, during WWII, American internment of the Japanese is fully justified. If today US and China is in a war, I think some Chinese-Americans with their anti-West, anti-American activities such as spying, sabotage and propaganda, should be put in jail or interned.

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"Warlordism often occurs after the downfall of a Chinese dynasty." --- Quote Kai Chen

This problem is very easily to solve.NATO garrisons.(I don't like the UN.You?)At least garrisoned in the very early period of new countries born.

Kai Chen Response: Thanks for your input.

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""Ban" is not a way to escape competition. It is a way to ensure healthy competition can finally be in place." --- Quote Kai Chen

So your suggestion is ban sth for a very short period(like 10 years),after ppl leave it for a period,and when they could talk and discuss it reasonable then finally un-ban it?
if you do suggest it as this,i am afraid i still can not agree with you.
Except the reasons i had have said,here i plus another one:It's government interference.
Here maybe i needs to notice you the difference between us in the political spectrum.Although i always says words like "left wing shit",and i always emphasize the "right wing XXX",it was seemed like that i am inclining to right wing,but actually my personal political view is Libertarian.According to several simple test,my personal political view be tagged as Radical Libertarian by those sites.Since you have a Doctorate Degree of Politics,you must know what is that too.
Yet i do have some different views with the mainstream of American Libertarian.
Mainstream(or at least some views of American Libertarian) claims that shouldn't interfere outside of USA.
Maybe this thought caused by their previous Isolationism tradition,or maybe even plus some other reasons.
However,i do support to do interference,including the very special method —— war.Isolationism in current day just self-cheating and self-anaesthesia.It only let things get worser and let others increase their courage and audacity.
In our private life,we know we shouldn't be passiveness,we shouldn't neither self-cheating nor self-anaesthesia.We should be more activeness to face & solve things.And in International affairs,so it does either.
And maybe for some Libertarians,why they choose this theory as personal political views,i think maybe sometime just cause for the their ethic,or they just simply like it.
However,to me,i also simply like it though,yet the reasons i choose it,are after massive rationalism reasoning reckoning,pondering,comparison,and analysis.And it do not have any neither ethic nor moral factors to prompt me choose it.However,even if i chosen it,i still intentionally keep doubts in it.Notice that,the doubts are intentional.

Kai Chen Response: Skepticism is necessary and healthy. Cynicism is harmful and unhealthy. I lean toward being a Libertarian as well. But I am never an anarchist. Minimal/limited government to ensure justice and national defense is necessary. But economy is a realm government should not interfere. I am not an atheist either. I believe our freedom and rights come from God/Providence/Divine Power, never come from men. Your infatuation with allowing Mao's image to exist in a political culture after communism befuddles me. We can agree to disagree on this point.

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【Feinde der Wahrheit. - Ueberzeugungen sind gefährlichere Feinde der Wahrheit, als Lügen.】
【Enemies of truth - Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.】

——Friedrich Nietzsche,I, Aph. 483

"But you have to ask yourself this: What do I believe?"
As I said,“Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies”,i always intentionally have doubts to everything,even the things which i partly support or partly agreed(human can't and also shouldn't 100% support nor agree with nor believe in sth.It's the ABC of Psychology and Philosophy).I am definitely not always 100% correct in all conditions of all time periods.So i always preparing correct my Weltanschauung,Wertvorstellung,and Sense of Cognition,of course,the correction should basis on the solid evidence or multiple solid evidences,and the logical,rational reasoning.
I am both are Radical Sensibility and Radical Rationality.Radical Rationality means i demand myself must & have to think things ultimately near the objectively truth,and i also demand myself must & have to think things beyond my own Egocentrism(egocentrism in Cognitive Realm).I always want to know new methods or theories that can let me achieve these aims better.For example,methods such as P-value(in Statistical Significance),Comfirmation Bias,Double-Blind,etc.Radical Rationality is my tool to see Ce Monde(=world,include myself),it's my tool to cognōscere(=to know) the world(include myself).Meanwhile,i demand myself must & have to maintain the Radical Sensibility.Because Radical Rationality only my tool,not myself's character.Myself's character is Radical Sensibility,which means if i have already use my tool(Radical Rationality) estimated or reckoned or pondered some thing have enough big benefits to do,then difficult will not be counted.What really important is should or shouldn't to do,Not can or can't to do.If the cost is too big,then it's the time to use the intelligence to reduce the cost.If the cost still enough big,or i change my mind(because the estimate of the thing's value to me have already decreased),then some cases should be abandoned or at least temporary abandoned.However,there also have cases that even the cost enough big,and the reduction of the cost is not so efficacious,yet subject still shouldn't to abandon them.

Btw i should notice you that there is not only you read bible.
Some ppl like KJV,however i myself much more prefer ESV(English Standard Version).Because it's considered an "essentially literal" translation(if you know any version is better at essentially literal plz tell me),and the very first phrases that give me aesthetic(original morphemes= to perceive) feeling or spiritual feeling from some other media(such as any kinds of art works)is from the ESV.
Yet meanwhile,i also like the Koine Greek Version of New Testament.Because it's one of the original languages of New Testament.The major languages spoken by both Jews and Greeks in the Holy Land at the time of Jesus were Aramaic and Koine Greek, and to a limited extent a colloquial dialect of Mishnaic Hebrew.And Koine Greek is different with current day's Greek.You say current day's ugly mainland China's chink language can be treated as a art,however i personally do think Koine Greek is much valuable to be treated as a art.It's beautiful,meanwhile precise,which is chink language lack of.

Matthew 7:13-14 ESV
Ματθαίον 7:13-14 Ελληνιστική Κοινή
"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."
“Εἰσέλθατε διὰ τῆς στενῆς πύλης• ὅτι πλατεῖα ἡ πύλη καὶ εὐρύχωρος ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ ἀπάγουσα εἰς τὴν ἀπώλειαν, καὶ πολλοί εἰσιν οἱ εἰσερχόμενοι δι’ αὐτῆς•τί στενὴ ἡ πύλη καὶ τεθλιμμένη ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ ἀπάγουσα εἰς τὴν ζωήν, καὶ ὀλίγοι εἰσὶν οἱ εὑρίσκοντες αὐτήν.”

Even if we discuss about the Pictogram,current day's chinese character in china mainland also is a shit.First current day's china mainland's character is not true Pictogram.Egyptian hieroglyphs(original morphemes=Sacred Engrave) is the true Pictogram.Second,if we talk about aesthetic feeling and the precision of hanzi itself,japanese kanji > taiwan hanzi > china mainland's hanzi.You can do the comparison while you buy books from the three places.

There did had have some times in my previous life that felt things which sort of callings or evokings,however after i meditated them,i know actually i only interest to the concepts like "save",and my Weltanschauung,Wertvorstellung,and Sense of Cognition as i said in previous,so i refuse to be a Protestant,and in the future i don't think i will either.But i do had a big influence from Protestantism & it's culture,in this sense i am a Half-Protestant,and objectively,i think in general aspects(means in at least 50% aspects) comparison,Protestantism is hitherto known best religion of the world in all major religions. Yet in another side,i am anti it,because Radical Rationality(as i noticed) is my tool,meanwhile i dislike any kinds of religious emotion or passion,includes the Personal Cult(actually is God Cult) Religious Passion in communism,for example,the famous words in old chink ppl in Mao Period and even in current day,"I swear to Chairman Mao".Current day in chink countryside,profile of Chairman Mao is still popular in chink ppl's home,just like christ's profle or artifact(such as cross) is popular in USA.

Kai Chen Response: Friedrich Nietzsche was an atheist. Marx was an atheist. That may very well explain the development of Nazism in pre-WWII Germany. Truth does not come from men. Truth comes only from God. Men can only DISCOVER truth by God. Men cannot be Gods to manufacture truth and principles. Newton DISCOVERED law of gravity. Newton did not invent it. Conviction to the principle of freedom (from God) is what we badly need today. Your non-committal mindset will impede your further mental/spiritual/intellectual growth. Think more deeply on the origin of life, consciousness and morality. You will discover reason and science can never explain it. It only belongs to the realm of faith/belief. Good luck. Kai Chen

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“Though I like to reason with you, but my reasoning has a strong moral base. ” ---- Quote Kai Chen

Can see it.
But morality isn't the politics.And politics is not morality.Though the morality maybe can be one of the dynamic factors of politics which con-forge it.

Kai Chen Response: Morality - good vs. evil, right vs. wrong, truth vs. falsehood, justice vs. injustice, is in our every day words and deeds. To deny such existence is to enter the morass of nihilism and meaninglessness.

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"To say people will always voluntarily do the right thing is a huge mistake." --- Quote Kai Chen

It's a way to get rid off responsibility.People who say it while discussing affairs,most of them perhaps have a chaostic status of logic. Yet Chinks like this phrase very much.

Kai Chen Response: What phrase?

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" You are aiming at "winning or losing.Are we on the same page?! I bear no ill will toward you." --- Quote Kai Chen

now you know which status of mindset that current chink is.

Kai Chen Response: I fail to see what you mean. (Please do not use name-calling in our discussion. "chink" should be "Banned" if you still want to continue. This is my rule and bottom line. )

"I will cut you off here." --- Quote Kai Chen

of course,it's your property.

Kai Chen Response: I will indeed do that if you don't follow the rules and defy a free being's moral principles.

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